Curse

Lycan Nibbler · Oct 27, 2008, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akane

Guilty here...

I commend you for posting on here.

I do hope that you do use it as an example for your son about downloading such things and trying to cheat the system will end up with consequences.

If I was your son, Id make you get your own copy of a game next time!

Arduin · Oct 27, 2008, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Gaile never said it was okay to use the G15 macro's FYI. I've looked through all postings and online chat. This is another case of people taking someone's words and pulling meaning out of them that has never been there. Gaile said she has never seen anyone BANNED for using a G15/keyboard macro (this statement was made 1 year ago as a reference though). Not that they were okay to use.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up, and I'm sorry for spreading false assumptions in this thread.

Always thought a G15 was okay to use, as confirmed by a GM, until Star Gazer got banned. As of now, I really don't know what to believe

ReiNaruto · Oct 27, 2008, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Concerning the luxon and kurzick title, I have always felt like repeatable missions should be removed, or they should not grant any title point. The same thing should be applied to luxon/kurzick blessing for killing monsters. The allegiance points should be granted only at the end of vanquishing a zone or in milestones, every time you kill 100 monsters you get points. Just to avoid the use of farm bots.

cataphract · Oct 27, 2008, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

"Kurzick and Luxon titles is almost impossible to achieve"

Right, and so is amassing the sheer volume of ectos need to buy a mini Panda... does that mean we can run Bots scamming fools out of their ectos in LA and at worst suffer a two week suspension? I guess so because so many players have achieved the 'near impossible' task of maxing the Kurzick and/or Luxon titles... far fewer have amassed the wealth needed for an extremely prestigious mini pet.

The difference here is that the titles in question are too difficult to obtain by design, while the Panda is difficult to obtain by player economics. If you all would just quit stroking your e-peens with uber-cool ultra-rare useless minipets, their prices would drop. It's the coveting of thy neighbours minipet that makes those pointless things expensive, not game design. On the other hand, if you were to stop grinding for Luxon/Kurzick titles - their max tier would not drop. It being hard-coded into the game and all.

wu is me · Oct 27, 2008, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Translation: The game is too hard.

Solution: We're going to make it easier.

Typical Anet.

thats actually an awesome work ethic....

eg:

This car is too slow, lets make it faster

This game isn't fun enough lets make it funner!

If indeed the game is too hard... is the solution truly not to make it less hard? ie easier???

Sir Popel A Lot · Oct 27, 2008, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akane

The least I could do was to speak up on their behalf and put the blame back on to where it belongs... Germany!

Sure, because there are no bots made by americans, lol
Put the blame back on to whom it belongs... YOU!!!

and now on topic; 2 weeks are a joke, imo the best way is to reset the rep. pts of all those botters, this is what they deserve

Smurf Minions · Oct 27, 2008, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Lucky for those who did use macro's, 2 weeks is not much as you look what they did even though it was a great misunderstanding

N1ghtstalker · Oct 27, 2008, 10:42 AM // 10:42

FFF is hard?
took me a few hours to learn and now i can do the lutgardis HFFF
wtf is too hard? placing flags? >_>

makosi · Oct 27, 2008, 11:23 AM // 11:23

The new doubled faction for killing enemies is a far more reasonable method of farming points. Vanquishing Mourning Veil Falls can net around 8-9k points and I get loot and open chests along the way.

I can't wait to see what the November patch does to help improve the allegiance titles even further.

upier · Oct 27, 2008, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

FFF is hard?
took me a few hours to learn and now i can do the lutgardis HFFF
wtf is too hard? placing flags? >_>

It takes HOURS to learn?!??!
OMG - we need Ursan for HFFF!
NAO!11!

Roupe · Oct 27, 2008, 12:12 PM // 12:12

the Guild wars game interface even offers the possibility to assign keys for activating the heroes skillbars, which makes HFFF even easier.

Since are many task that require repetitiveness the use of macros would relive body damage to the players, Preventing Carpal tunnel syndrome and other Repetitive strain injury. Botting, where you leave the computer unattended - i can see why ANET is frowning on -but not the simpler macros.

Oh speaking of botting, I really think ANET should make the Legendary Defender of Ascalon title not require becoming a corpse punchingbag (deathlvl)for several hours. That feels like botting too.

in presearing Add higher +5 lvl (*comparison to lowest party member entering) foes in northlands, increase the bosses there to lvl 15, add a pvp arena (for lvl 10+) in pre searing, or something that makes the defender a defender -not a corpse punchingbag.

MacReborn1 · Oct 27, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18

In my opinion it ok that ANET banned them just for 2 weeks, becuse most of this people who used macro for HFFF are just title hunters with more then 20 titles( not gold sellers on ebay

). So they like game, but they are tired of boring HFFF and just wanted to speed it up

. This banned people should take this warning quit serious to not try it again. I think it resonible decison of ANET.

I dont like idea that ANET make easy getting this titles. MAybe if some people doing HFFF just for gold, then gold shoud be removed from quest or just reduced for 10 to 50 g. If somebody think that kurzick or luxon title are to boring or takes to much time just dont do it, but dont ask ANET to make them easier.

Then what point in titles, if everyone can have it? This days most of interest of PvE players are titles, so if ANET make them easier to get, then it no point to max it or even to play game anymore, becuse everyone gona have them quit fast. In GW everything it's in competition and prestige(ok ok and in fun if you gave good guild mates

) , so if you ruin that to ground many old(2+ year) PvE people gona stop playing it and new ones gona play it for much shorter time.

DreamWind · Oct 27, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Gaile never said it was okay to use the G15 macro's FYI. I've looked through all postings and online chat. This is another case of people taking someone's words and pulling meaning out of them that has never been there. Gaile said she has never seen anyone BANNED for using a G15/keyboard macro (this statement was made 1 year ago as a reference though). Not that they were okay to use.

To see the full quote on banning bots and the ONLY PUBLIC STATEMENT that has ever been made on keyboard macro's you can see that below:

Your post clears up nothing (and I find it odd that anybody thinks it does). People were banned for using macros when there was no public statement saying it was a bannable offense, and the only mention of it was something from Gaile Gray over a year ago saying nothing would happen?

Still to this day there is no defining of what is bannable and what isn't. Most people who don't read forums will continue to use macros as if nothing ever happened. Since they minimize the ban to 2 week suspension it still doesn't clear up the fact that they screwed up (badly) and the policies regarding it are sketchy at best.

This isn't even getting into the official explanation that "that area is too hard and grindy for titles so we will make it easier", which is probably one of the most hilarious things I've ever heard out of the company.

Zorgy · Oct 27, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

"...the design team is aware that earning the Kurzick and Luxon titles is almost impossible to achieve through normal play..."

What about all the others titles, Regina? cartographer, survivor, drunkard, gladiator, maxed title, hero, zaishen....& so on

I started Alliance Battles when Factions was released, I am R12 and I "fffed" few times only WITHOUT a bot (Luxon side) because it is so boring/repetitive = no fun.

Numa Pompilius · Oct 27, 2008, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

To see the full quote on banning bots and the ONLY PUBLIC STATEMENT that has ever been made on keyboard macro's you can see that below:

A quick google turned up this:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...h_G15_Keyboard

AFAI can tell Gaile and NCSoft have the position that the keyboard itself and (non-timed, non-looping) macros are fine, full-out botting scripts are bad, and intermediate-level scripting decided on a case-by-case basis by GM discretion.

The problem is that it's a smooth, continuous, gradient from a simple macro to a full-out botting script, and the G15 is capable of creating both.

Like I said when this was discussed before, it's not the device or software used to create the script which determines if you're botting, it's the nature and complexity of the script itself. And the final decision of which side of the fuzzy line you are, is left to the GM.

cataphract · Oct 27, 2008, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorgy

"...the design team is aware that earning the Kurzick and Luxon titles is almost impossible to achieve through normal play..."

What about all the others titles, Regina? cartographer, survivor, drunkard, gladiator, maxed title, hero, zaishen....& so on

I started Alliance Battles when Factions was released, I am R12 and I "fffed" few times only WITHOUT a bot (Luxon side) because it is so boring/repetitive = no fun.

I think cartographer and survivor do not fall into the same category as allegiance or PvP titles. Allegiance titles are "almost impossible to achieve through normal play" and PvP titles are unattainable by the nature of PvP itself.

Kyp Jade · Oct 27, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

and PvP titles are unattainable by the nature of PvP itself.

You forgot to mention how starcraft won gw when he got r15 hero because it was made to be 'unattainable'

Inde · Oct 27, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Your post clears up nothing (and I find it odd that anybody thinks it does). People were banned for using macros when there was no public statement saying it was a bannable offense, and the only mention of it was something from Gaile Gray over a year ago saying nothing would happen?

Still to this day there is no defining of what is bannable and what isn't. Most people who don't read forums will continue to use macros as if nothing ever happened. Since they minimize the ban to 2 week suspension it still doesn't clear up the fact that they screwed up (badly) and the policies regarding it are sketchy at best.

This isn't even getting into the official explanation that "that area is too hard and grindy for titles so we will make it easier", which is probably one of the most hilarious things I've ever heard out of the company.

Um, ArenaNet has right there in their EULA that you can't use 3rd party programs. Using a macro involves a 3rd party program whether it's a software/keyboard/etc. I don't even need to look up the text because of course it's there. And I was indeed "clearing things up" for people who thought a statement had been made concerning G15 and it's use of macro's from the Community Relations. Which is, just as you pointed out, vague at best. I wasn't arguing for or against any point in this thread... I was giving information.

Targren · Oct 27, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Um, ArenaNet has right there in their EULA that you can't use 3rd party programs. Using a macro involves a 3rd party program whether it's a software/keyboard/etc. I don't even need to look up the text because of course it's there. And I was indeed "clearing things up" for people who thought a statement had been made concerning G15 and it's use of macro's from the Community Relations. Which is, just as you pointed out, vague at best. I wasn't arguing for or against any point in this thread... I was giving information.

That EULA has been directly contradicted by ANet staff before, though. Consider TexMod, which is a 3rd party program (whereas a keyboard is not) which Gaile said could be ugn sed but would not be supported by ANet (The old "if it blows up your computer, steals your wallet and impregnates your dog, we're not responsible" disclaimer). And we do have gaile saying explicitly that they using keyboard "is fine, you should not get it so macro'd out that it auto-targets, auto-attacks, auto-picks-up-the-loot, and auto-brew-you-an-espresso-while-you-play" (From her talk page on the official wiki).

They need to draw the line clearly and without ambiguity. For instance, if it is capable of continuing to function working when you are not at the keyboard, then it's a bot. Otherwise it's a macro and fair game.

tmakinen · Oct 27, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

They need to draw the line clearly and without ambiguity

That is simply not possible. For every 'clear' and 'unambiguous' rule, there are ten ways to crawl around it without touching the line. There must be an ultimate 'whatever we find inappropriate' clause.